Comments on: Bloody-mindedness and the alveolar trill http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/ High Weirdness in Low Places Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:31:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: paul http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/comment-page-1/#comment-8516 paul Mon, 08 Dec 2008 04:32:58 +0000 http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/#comment-8516 George: Good luck. The road is hard. Richard: I've been able to get an alveolar flap that sounds vaguely right, but it's missing too much of the rhotic character...and it's only for a flap or two, not a proper trill. It seems to take too much conscious intervention to waggle the tongue. l: Thanks for this...much better than the spoon references I'd happened across. I will definitely be giving your method a try. George: Good luck. The road is hard.

Richard: I’ve been able to get an alveolar flap that sounds vaguely right, but it’s missing too much of the rhotic character…and it’s only for a flap or two, not a proper trill. It seems to take too much conscious intervention to waggle the tongue.

l: Thanks for this…much better than the spoon references I’d happened across. I will definitely be giving your method a try.

]]> By: l http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/comment-page-1/#comment-8515 l Mon, 08 Dec 2008 03:58:51 +0000 http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/#comment-8515 I am a college student studying speech pathology, and my prefessor just taught me this great method for learning the trilled r. I was convinced that I would never be able to produce it, but this worked for me! You point the tip of your tongue straight up so it very lightly touches the alveolar ridge. Then take the non-bristle end of a toothbrush, or the blunt end of a pen or marker. Anything smooth will work. Put the toothbrush, etc. against the bottom part of your tongue and quickly move it from side while saying "ah." At first you will sound ridiculous, but if you do it for 5 minutes every day in a week or so you will be able to somewhat produce the correct trilled r. This manual manipulation somehow gets your tongue used to the position it needs to be in to make the trilled r. I am a college student studying speech pathology, and my prefessor just taught me this great method for learning the trilled r. I was convinced that I would never be able to produce it, but this worked for me!
You point the tip of your tongue straight up so it very lightly touches the alveolar ridge. Then take the non-bristle end of a toothbrush, or the blunt end of a pen or marker. Anything smooth will work. Put the toothbrush, etc. against the bottom part of your tongue and quickly move it from side while saying “ah.” At first you will sound ridiculous, but if you do it for 5 minutes every day in a week or so you will be able to somewhat produce the correct trilled r. This manual manipulation somehow gets your tongue used to the position it needs to be in to make the trilled r.

]]> By: Richard http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/comment-page-1/#comment-8432 Richard Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:50:07 +0000 http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/#comment-8432 24 year old male year, desperate to learn the alveolar trill. did you have any luck with it so far Paul? 24 year old male year, desperate to learn the alveolar trill. did you have any luck with it so far Paul?

]]> By: George http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/comment-page-1/#comment-8281 George Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:41:59 +0000 http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/#comment-8281 This is useful advice. I am so bored of people saying 'you just have to (insert sound i can't make)" which doesn't help as it is just an example OF the trill, not HOW to do it!! This is so frustrating! I am studying spanish at university and have never been able to roll R's. But, I am as bloody minded as anyone I know!! Thanks for the help! This is useful advice. I am so bored of people saying ‘you just have to (insert sound i can’t make)” which doesn’t help as it is just an example OF the trill, not HOW to do it!!

This is so frustrating!

I am studying spanish at university and have never been able to roll R’s.

But, I am as bloody minded as anyone I know!!

Thanks for the help!

]]> By: Nellie http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/comment-page-1/#comment-7210 Nellie Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:45:37 +0000 http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/#comment-7210 Hi, I'm trying to teach myself an alveolar trill as well, thanks for some good advice. Hi, I’m trying to teach myself an alveolar trill as well, thanks for some good advice.

]]> By: paul http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/comment-page-1/#comment-2080 paul Mon, 11 Jun 2007 04:31:48 +0000 http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/#comment-2080 Hm, thanks for this, dveej. I've been producing some very unpleasant sounds attempting your friend's method, and once, just a hint of the right tongue vibration. Hm, thanks for this, dveej. I’ve been producing some very unpleasant sounds attempting your friend’s method, and once, just a hint of the right tongue vibration.

]]> By: dveej http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/comment-page-1/#comment-1834 dveej Tue, 29 May 2007 04:52:01 +0000 http://www.zenoli.net/2007/05/bloody-mindedness-and-the-alveolar-trill/#comment-1834 Not as an adult, but as a semi-sentient adolescent in middle school, a friend recommended the following method: Say "Teddy" three times. On the third iteration try to prolong the "d" sound while blowing great quantities of air through your mouth. My friend demonstrated this, and he got a trill out of it, but he was not aware of the voiced/unvoiced contrast, so his trill was unvoiced, which doesn't work for most of the languages I know about with trills (it occurs in Welsh, I think - "rh") Later, as an adult, a voice teacher I accompanied for who had taught at a conservatory in Shanghai before 1949 told the entire class about the "tera-tero-teru" method which he had learned while a student in Belgium. He pronounced the vowels as though they were French, so his "u" was like u-umlaut. Most of the kids in the class didn't really understand what he was saying anyway - he was of advanced age and this was a community college voice class in America, and the class was about learning to sing by singing basic art songs, which they weren't interested in because it wasn't rock or pop or country - so they just waited for the anecdotal frenzy to pass. Not as an adult, but as a semi-sentient adolescent in middle school, a friend recommended the following method:

Say “Teddy” three times. On the third iteration try to prolong the “d” sound while blowing great quantities of air through your mouth.

My friend demonstrated this, and he got a trill out of it, but he was not aware of the voiced/unvoiced contrast, so his trill was unvoiced, which doesn’t work for most of the languages I know about with trills (it occurs in Welsh, I think - “rh”)

Later, as an adult, a voice teacher I accompanied for who had taught at a conservatory in Shanghai before 1949 told the entire class about the “tera-tero-teru” method which he had learned while a student in Belgium. He pronounced the vowels as though they were French, so his “u” was like u-umlaut. Most of the kids in the class didn’t really understand what he was saying anyway - he was of advanced age and this was a community college voice class in America, and the class was about learning to sing by singing basic art songs, which they weren’t interested in because it wasn’t rock or pop or country - so they just waited for the anecdotal frenzy to pass.

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